I wanted to point out that "classically trained" comes at many levels...
feel that people are overgeneralizing here...

Levels:
- soloist who has played at Carnegie Hall (these types are the most unlikely to "cross over" to fiddling, I think?)
- went to music school / plays professionally in an orchestra / teaches violin
- took some years of violin lessons as a kid (me...and the people below!)

Leader of "slow" learner's sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid, also plays guitar and Irish harp, sings, plays contradances downtown

Leader of the "fast" sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid (Suzuki starting at age 8, he says), fiddles in a gigging Celtic-rock band, teaches fiddle/violin to all ages

Many of the best players I know, grew up with some kind of music lessons...whether piano lessons, cello, or playing saxophone in the band (he is now taking up Uillean pipes, another blowy moody instrument...:-D

So let's not bash on those who have had "formal training" or "music lessons" ...
it does not turn you into cardboard necessarily...:-)

quote:

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Originally posted by NCnotes

I wanted to point out that "classically trained" comes at many levels...
feel that people are overgeneralizing here...

Levels:
- soloist who has played at Carnegie Hall (these types are the most unlikely to "cross over" to fiddling, I think?)
- went to music school / plays professionally in an orchestra / teaches violin
- took some years of violin lessons as a kid (me...and the people below!)

Leader of "slow" learner's sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid, also plays guitar and Irish harp, sings, plays contradances downtown

Leader of the "fast" sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid (Suzuki starting at age 8, he says), fiddles in a gigging Celtic-rock band, teaches fiddle/violin to all ages

Many of the best players I know, grew up with some kind of music lessons...whether piano lessons, cello, or playing saxophone in the band (he is now taking up Uillean pipes, another blowy moody instrument...:-D

So let's not bash on those who have had "formal training" or "music lessons" ...
it does not turn you into cardboard necessarily...:-)

---

Oooooo....  please - let me be quick to respond.    

I don't think there is any "bashing" going on.  Seriously - I'm not against anything classical. I'm not saying that it is a mistake to take lessons from an instructor (never have). I understand why someone would want to do that, and I know there are benefits that can be learned from it. I just don't sense any need for me to do that - even at other's insistence. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it isn't from a place where "I don't like you, or folks like you." I would hope that Rich and I would be good friends, given the chance to meet. As I have said before, I recognize and acknowledge his skills and knowledge. But none of that will ever guarantee that friends won't find disagreements. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it isn't from a place where "I'm against classical violin music instruction and training."  That would be wrong. I do enjoy listening to classical music, but I'm not interested in learning to play anything classical - today. I might change my mind, but I don't expect that to happen. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it is a reaction to what I perceive to be an insistence that a fiddler will never be able to reach their highest potential as a fiddler unless or until they get classical training - ideally from an instructor.  And I think others that have responded probably are speaking to this from the same place I am...     ...just not true. They should expect me to say that. 

I don't get the sense from anyone that has responded - that they are "against" classical music or violinist. I do think there has been a concerted effort to resist the notion that all fiddlers / violinists need to have classical training if they ever expect to reach "technical excellence". That is obviously true for those who are working towards becoming a classical violinist. BUT it doesn't always apply to those who want to be a traditional old time fiddler. Old Time fiddling has a completely different set of metrics for determining excellence in technique (how the style is traditionally expressed musically). I think the same is true for all other fiddle traditions as well.  My point is (imo) classical training does not contribute anything towards the techniques of any traditional music style - that can't be learned within that style's discipline. Classical training is not a bad thing, but I would rather pursue / train in the style of the tradition I am trying to learn, not from another discipline in hopes that it will provide me a "shortcut". If someone thinks that classical training is the key - then that decision should be understood as a personal decision for them - not a universal truth.

But - I do understand why someone with a classical background would insist that what they did was the best anyone could do. It is what they did, it is what they play, and sometimes that causes a blind spot to what is needed for excellence in other disciplines. And in my opinion - that can mean a certain degree of ignorance is involved (key being the root "to ignore").

That ignorance is sometimes seen when a classically trained violinist will read and play the notes from a music score written for a traditional tune. They think that their classical training is all they need to render a convincing interpretation within that tradition - and "that's all there is to traditional fiddling". That is the cardboard you refer to - imo. They can learn play those tunes, but not out of classical exercises or instruction.

Maybe I'm wrong. 

  HA....I've been meaning to add - one of the reasons I avoid any classical instruction or exercises is that I literally play everything with my fiddle cross-tuned. As Will Sonnett (Walter Brennen of Real McCoys) said in "The Guns of Will Sonnett":  "No brag - just fact." It's not really anything to brag about...  just is. I have reasons for choosing to do that and it works well for me. The musicians I have played old time fiddle tunes with are ok with it, like it just fine. There has never been any issues to deal with - in those circles.

But if I thought I needed classical training - how would that work?   Practice scales in 5 different tunings?  ...ahhh, no.  Could a classical instructor help me learn how to play the difficult  phrasings from 100 year old recordings of obscure tunes, by obscure fiddlers, from obscure places - that are crooked? 

I only play fiddle with other old time musicians. If I play with a group that involves another genre of music, where we will probably be changing keys often, I'll play another instrument.  That is not an issue for me. 

So, maybe that helps folks understand my position a little better. 

quote:

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Originally posted by wrench13

Bluegrass fiddle seems to be a different thing. I hear a lot of classical technique slipping into BG fiddle breaks more and more these days. There is less emphasis on embroidering the melody and more show-offy licks and runs having little to do with the melody. Right or wrong, it that environment, classical training does benefit.
 

Agreed, but that's not my species of 'grass.  Not much classical technique in Art Wooten or Benny Martin or Bobby Hicks' playing, although I can see that formal training in the fundamentals could help with the intonation and control needed to nail those sliding double stops up the neck and pull the kind of tone those guys got.  Most modern bluegrass leaves me cold, except for the relatively new crop of hard-driving young bands like Po' Ramblin' Boys, the Kody Norris Show, and a few others.  

As Tony said, I have no issue at all with trained fiddlers, so long as they realize that it's nearly as long a journey from classical violin competence to mastery of most traditional styles as the trip in the other direction.  No untrained fiddler that I know of would be so presumptuous as to think they could sit in with even a high school string quartet (except O'Conner, and he's a space alien).  OTOH, there is no shortage of violinists who turn up at strong OT jams with a book of sheet music and an overabundance of confidence.

J'ever hear about an artist that painted the same tree or flower for years?
I sorta been trying that with a couple tunes. We'll see.

Once apon a time, my thing was to come up with an instrumental break and some fills for pop, jazz, country, and bluegrass tunes.  Listening to all that stuff would give one mental fuel for generating said music. Bach, and Beethoven and a few others, it's hard not hear that stuff. Just more fuel. How that could help with Spider Bit the Baby, is anyone's guess?

quote:

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Originally posted by tonyelder

I don't think there is any "bashing" going on.  Seriously - I'm not against anything classical. I'm not saying that it is a mistake to take lessons from an instructor (never have). I understand why someone would want to do that, and I know there are benefits that can be learned from it. I just don't sense any need for me to do that - even at other's insistence. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it isn't from a place where "I don't like you, or folks like you." I would hope that Rich and I would be good friends, given the chance to meet. As I have said before, I recognize and acknowledge his skills and knowledge. But none of that will ever guarantee that friends won't find disagreements. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it isn't from a place where "I'm against classical violin music instruction and training."  That would be wrong. I do enjoy listening to classical music, but I'm not interested in learning to play anything classical - today. I might change my mind, but I don't expect that to happen. 

And when I respond to folks like Rich, it is a reaction to what I perceive to be an insistence that a fiddler will never be able to reach their highest potential as a fiddler unless or until they get classical training - ideally from an instructor.  And I think others that have responded probably are speaking to this from the same place I am...     ...just not true. They should expect me to say that. 

I don't get the sense from anyone that has responded - that they are "against" classical music or violinist. I do think there has been a concerted effort to resist the notion that all fiddlers / violinists need to have classical training if they ever expect to reach "technical excellence". That is obviously true for those who are working towards becoming a classical violinist. BUT it doesn't always apply to those who want to be a traditional old time fiddler. Old Time fiddling has a completely different set of metrics for determining excellence in technique (how the style is traditionally expressed musically). I think the same is true for all other fiddle traditions as well.  My point is (imo) classical training does not contribute anything towards the techniques of any traditional music style - that can't be learned within that style's discipline. Classical training is not a bad thing, but I would rather pursue / train in the style of the tradition I am trying to learn, not from another discipline in hopes that it will provide me a "shortcut". If someone thinks that classical training is the key - then that decision should be understood as a personal decision for them - not a universal truth.

But - I do understand why someone with a classical background would insist that what they did was the best anyone could do. It is what they did, it is what they play, and sometimes that causes a blind spot to what is needed for excellence in other disciplines. And in my opinion - that can mean a certain degree of ignorance is involved (key being the root "to ignore").

That ignorance is sometimes seen when a classically trained violinist will read and play the notes from a music score written for a traditional tune. They think that their classical training is all they need to render a convincing interpretation within that tradition - and "that's all there is to traditional fiddling". That is the cardboard you refer to - imo. They can learn play those tunes, but not out of classical exercises or instruction.

Maybe I'm wrong. 

---

You're absutely wrong.

First of all, I think you just don't realize how extremely insulting your attitude toward classical violin playing is and how often you (as well as several others) blatantly malign anyone who even dares to mention the words "violin, technique, or classical." Imagine how it would come across if a classical player were to post on the forum about old time players as ignorant hillbillies who couldn't play in tune. Your comments are similar, just with the opposite terms.

I have never said that you or anyone else must do anything when it comes to learning how to play. I have made recommendations at the request of posters who have asked with a serious desire to improve their technique. Every time I make a comment you decide that you need to invalidate it by arguing that it's just a classical thing and that I'm trying to force everyone to do what I do. Then if I respond you feel that you have to start multiple threads about the same topics in an attempt to drown out opposing  views.

You keep ascribing things to me that haven't said, and it's clear that you haven't actually read my comments very carefully. I have never said all players must learn classical technique. I have never said all fiddlers must learn classical technique to be good fiddlers. I have said that if one wants to develop technique to increase skill in playing the instrument, the classical pedagogy available has the most developed and straightforward route to acccomplish this. I have acknowledged that there are many good fiddlers who did not have a "classical training" to start them off. I do not agree that classical instruction turns a player into cardboard (another insult that's been floating about this thread). Some players are stiff, but that's true of any genre.

You have repeatedly referred to me as a classical player, as though old time is a foreign tradition to me. I have played fiddle music all my violin-playing life. Your insistence that I am ignorant of fiddling and its roots and traditions is inappropriate and wrong and as much as you try to hide your jabs by saying that you just like to do what works for you and that you think that's what everyone should be allowed to do, the insults are not subtle. 

Continuing to go tit-for-tat is useless, not on subject, and not interesting.

I won't apologize for what I have said, there was no malice. But I am sorry that what I have said offended you. Apparently you're not very good at digesting what others have written either.

No need for a response.

quote:

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Originally posted by farmerjones

J'ever hear about an artist that painted the same tree or flower for years?
I sorta been trying that with a couple tunes. We'll see.

Once apon a time, my thing was to come up with an instrumental break and some fills for pop, jazz, country, and bluegrass tunes.  Listening to all that stuff would give one mental fuel for generating said music. Bach, and Beethoven and a few others, it's hard not hear that stuff. Just more fuel. How that could help with Spider Bit the Baby, is anyone's guess?

---

I would say that, "spider Bit The Baby" Will be better than it was before. And you could apply any techniques (or insights) learned to similar tunes....If you wanted to.

quote:

---

Originally posted by farmerjones

J'ever hear about an artist that painted the same tree or flower for years?
I sorta been trying that with a couple tunes. We'll see.

Once apon a time, my thing was to come up with an instrumental break and some fills for pop, jazz, country, and bluegrass tunes.  Listening to all that stuff would give one mental fuel for generating said music. Bach, and Beethoven and a few others, it's hard not hear that stuff. Just more fuel. How that could help with Spider Bit the Baby, is anyone's guess?

---

I had a customer a while back who took up the violin innhis retirement because he wanted to be able to play one piece by Bach. It was all he ever practiced or played and he wasn't interested in learning anything else because he just loved that one piece so much. For him I don't think it was about having a changing perception of the music as he repeated it over time; I think it was more that he found comfort in the familiarity of the piece and he sought to improve his playing ability as he repeated.

I think the approach of trying  different things out with a familiar tune can be very rewarding. It can open up some possibilities and even deepen the appreciation of the music. I remember an episode of Florian ZaBach's TV show where he brought the camera in to see how the show's musicians rehearsed and how they would have inpromptu jam sessions for ideas. ZaBach scored all the music for his show but be incorporated a lot of playful ideas. To demonstrate how a typical rehearsal might go, they picked the melody to London Bridge Is Falling Down. They played it straight and then started experimenting with a switch to a minor key, a Gypsy melody, a Dixieland jazz number, etc.

A lot of musicians have played around with melodies in different genres. Classical melodies have been used for popular tunes frequently. There was a huge spike in interest in Vivaldi when a heavy metal guitarist recorded the third movement of Summer. Since then, a classical music that lends itself to metal has become a popular avenue of exploration. I went to a Jazz in the Garden concert at the sculpture garden on the National Mall at the invitation of a former coworker, and there was a jazz violinist who closed a set by taking Blackberry Blossom and playing it in Old  Time style, then slowing it down and making it into a jazz melody. He pulled it off nicely. 

quote:

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Originally posted by Peghead

Don't get me wrong, I love my tunes but lately I'm wondering if they are the most direct way to improvement. I'm curious how others round out their practice time.

---

I've been re-thinking my answer to the the original question.

Earlier I posted I've always thought that tunes themselves were all that were necessary to improve fiddle playing, and that scales and other practice disciplines were, if not a waste of time, unnecessary to the goal of playing them.

However, for the last several weeks I have been trying to improve my 5-string banjo chops. (I've played it a little over the years but I'm trying to bring myself up a few notches. How well I succeed is another question). But I see what my natural inclination toward learning the banjo is, and it is not learning tunes! I know a few tunes and intend to learn more, but that's not the point.

I started comparing myself to a banjo player who was in my band several years ago. He was a very linear learner, and learned other player's intros and breaks, in other words, tunes. But he wasn't especially good at being able to play along with things he didn't already know well, and couldn't play freely in the music. In contrast, I'm working on internalizing various rolls and how to combine them while playing through chord groups, and then trying those on songs I know. I start on strictly mechanical things and see how those elements produce sounds I like or not. The mechanics, forming muscle memories, really matters, and is especially obvious on banjo.

I can see that learning to play fiddle could work in a similar way for some, especially when taking  the elements of technique and playing around with them in your own way, not necessarily following scales and other practice routines by rote. Still, the instruments are quite different to play.

Etudes or study pieces are specifically composed to gain proficiency at a certain technique, but this actual technique needs to be practiced in isolation first. Some etudes incorporate many techniques to be mastered and they need to be identified. Performance pieces and tunes offer the same approach; identify the techniques, practice each in isolation, then apply them to the tunes focusing on one technique at a time.

Buckhenry - Thanks, that's pretty much what I'm getting at. I have lots of material that I visit regularly. Most of it I'm comfortable with and glide right through. With more advanced material, when I encounter difficulties the answer so far has been to just bear down on that area, do lots of repetitions, and try to figure it out by listening closely, divide and conquer as you say, (but mostly repetition). It's seems brutish but it will eventually work for that tune and I'm O.K with that. But.. is that advancing my playing overall, or have I just learned another tune? And that's OK too, With fiddlers it seems like the the tune justifies the means, ( I just made that up! ) If it sounds the way you want - you're there. I just wonder if specificity is the most efficient way to practice? I'm personally looking for a way to address certain aspects in a more expansive, non-specific way. Kind of like cross training. There are lots of tune collections out there probably  thousands, but much less in the way of method (for fiddlers). Maybe figuring it out on your own is the definition of folk music! There is a lot more now than in the past with regard to method than in the past with on-line lessons and all, but still mostly learning tunes. As I mentioned earlier, I think I personally may be leaning towards some kind of hybrid/classical method. Maybe a teacher? Perhaps etudes are what I'm talking about. I'll look at them. I'm drawn to tone these days, the fiddlers I like sound so smooth and homogeneous if you know what I mean, it's like the tune is just the tip of the iceberg. 

While I can rarely be persuaded, I can't learn a tune I don't like. I don't have to love it, just like it. Often there is a puzzle within, that attracts me. Woodchoppers, or Coming Down from Denver. Or Jerusalem Ridge, or Bluegrass in the Backwoods. I've gone as far as to dig up the dots. (Relearn how to read the dots) My point is I'm not attracted to tunes without some added stuff, maybe it's technical? Chances are it probably is.

I spoke about playing the same five tunes. That's more about reviewing techniques as far as tone. Music consists of meter, and melody. Sometimes but not always harmony. It seems simple enough. Until one chooses to rub horsehair across frettless strings. 

Hmm, here is a way that I have been learning lately just by playing tunes...

I'm slowly recreating Tara Breen's gorgeous version of "Dowd's Favorite". Because her rhythm and the little variations/connecting notes are just so great:  https://youtu.be/HjEKXYIdyRM?si=9xUaGS5-XBi3pHrI

First I was copying/learning at 50% speed, and now after several days I can kind of play along with her at 75% speed. I'm not copying to become her clone, but just for educational purposes..to kind of "feel" what she does with the tune. What I've found is that things I learn from playing this, will creep into other tunes...

And Peghead, yea I know what you mean. It's like there's the Sound...and then each tune is just a different manifestation of the Sound...

There are some fiddlers with rough choppy sound that are revered...because their playing is so soulful, with unique artistic variations. I think it's kind of a personal choice what Sound you want to pursue? Some people actually prefer a bit of "dirt" in the fiddling. I had to resign myself to being a fairly clean fiddler (as much as I love dirt/grit in other fiddlers' playing) because for me it's just too hard to wipe out the classical background. But in my mind "clean and smooth" is not necessarily better than "rough and rhythmic", for example...

and.....ramble ramble! :-)

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

Hmm, here is a way that I have been learning lately just by playing tunes...

I'm slowly recreating Tara Breen's gorgeous version of "Dowd's Favorite". Because her rhythm and the little variations/connecting notes are just so great:  https://youtu.be/HjEKXYIdyRM?si=9xUaGS5-XBi3pHrI

First I was copying/learning at 50% speed, and now after several days I can kind of play along with her at 75% speed. I'm not copying to become her clone, but just for educational purposes..to kind of "feel" what she does with the tune. What I've found is that things I learn from playing this, will creep into other tunes...

And Peghead, yea I know what you mean. It's like there's the Sound...and then each tune is just a different manifestation of the Sound...

There are some fiddlers with rough choppy sound that are revered...because their playing is so soulful, with unique artistic variations. I think it's kind of a personal choice what Sound you want to pursue? Some people actually prefer a bit of "dirt" in the fiddling. I had to resign myself to being a fairly clean fiddler (as much as I love dirt/grit in other fiddlers' playing) because for me it's just too hard to wipe out the classical background. But in my mind "clean and smooth" is not necessarily better than "rough and rhythmic", for example...

and.....ramble ramble! :-)

---

In my opinion - this is  probably the best responses in this thread!

Agreed!.... Apart from some people want to get rid of the rough choppy dirt..... Or at least keep it under control. Just bring it out when it's needed.

Aw thanks!
I do think about this stuff ... but there is nobody else to talk about it with! :-)

quote:

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Originally posted by NCnotes

Aw thanks!
I do think about this stuff ... but there is nobody else to talk about it with! :-)

---

Ha Ha,  tell me about it. I wouldn't bring it up in the pub.....But i have tried..

This is also my only outlet...

Yea, not the kind of stuff to discuss after a few pints! Bit too serious, maybe! 
 

NCnotes- wow! I liked Tara’s playing a lot. Such articulate clean bowing. Never a wobble, the bow locks on to the center of the string instantaneously. It really suits the genre. I also noticed there wasn’t a single slurred string crossing which is interesting. It’s just part of that sound.

I wonder how Tara feels about tunes vs. exercises given her classical background. Her playing certainly doesn’t sound like cardboard to me.

Winning the All Ireland competition in all age groups is truly impressive, not to mention winning with multiple instruments.

quote:

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Originally posted by NCnotes

I wanted to point out that "classically trained" comes at many levels...
feel that people are overgeneralizing here...

Levels:
- soloist who has played at Carnegie Hall (these types are the most unlikely to "cross over" to fiddling, I think?)
- went to music school / plays professionally in an orchestra / teaches violin
- took some years of violin lessons as a kid (me...and the people below!)

Leader of "slow" learner's sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid, also plays guitar and Irish harp, sings, plays contradances downtown

Leader of the "fast" sesh -
took violin lessons as a kid (Suzuki starting at age 8, he says), fiddles in a gigging Celtic-rock band, teaches fiddle/violin to all ages

Many of the best players I know, grew up with some kind of music lessons...whether piano lessons, cello, or playing saxophone in the band (he is now taking up Uillean pipes, another blowy moody instrument...:-D

So let's not bash on those who have had "formal training" or "music lessons" ...
it does not turn you into cardboard necessarily...:-)

---

I agree that "classical trained" is somewhat vague; in degree and scope; and overall, IMO can be largely meaningless or irrelevant; often with erroneous claims and comparisons, false dichotomies. That single data point in itself, doesn't really inform on individual level...  applicable music knowledge and skills are; comprehension; listening; in how apply it to serve the music. Can ignore other, many many other variables; often more important relevant aspects and experiences which shape understanding, philosophy, values, and goals.

For traditional folk music (fiddling), can seem a bit odd why some bring it up?

The mention of Tara Breen, not sure what indicates any relevant classical violin background; she just talks about learning to play fiddle, and AFAIK she makes no mention of having classical violin background. Seems she does mention quite a bit, that she grew up aurally immersed in the traditional culture of playing music, (as well dancing, singing/diddling); Her dad was a trad player that got her and her brothers playing at young age, She started on tin whistle at 5, and then fiddle at around 8; music at home, sessions, tunes, ceili, Fleadhs; having passion for the music and taking opportunities of workshops, lessons, tunes from trad fiddlers... such as Maura O'Keefe, Frankie Gavin.

Immersion;  as aural process, and ontological learning; can often overlooked or underrated, (esp in modern ed); but has strong advantages when comes to understanding music, values within a culture or community.

Yea I listened to an interview. I never could find Tara mentioning any classical violin training, except taking "master classes" with her favorite fiddlers. I would guess she had some basic "violin" pointers as a kid when she first took up the instrument, based on her form? But maybe not to the extent where she felt she needed to mention teacher, how many years, etc.

She had an amazing music background...growing up in a family where everybody loved/played Irish folk. She did get a music degree (in classical flute!) and has also taken up the saxophone. She would get up early to practice her multiple instruments before school, from age 8 to 18...she just loved to play! :-).

I think you'll find this kind of background in a lot of the great fiddlers in their genres...they got the immersion, the talent...and, they practiced a heckuva lot!

quote:

---

Originally posted by NCnotes

Yea I listened to an interview. I never could find Tara mentioning any classical violin training, except taking "master classes" with her favorite fiddlers. I would guess she had some basic "violin" pointers as a kid when she first took up the instrument, based on her form? But maybe not to the extent where she felt she needed to mention teacher, how many years, etc.

She had an amazing music background...growing up in a family where everybody loved/played Irish folk. She did get a music degree (in classical flute!) and has also taken up the saxophone. She would get up early to practice her multiple instruments before school, from age 8 to 18...she just loved to play! :-).

I think you'll find this kind of background in a lot of the great fiddlers in their genres...they got the immersion, the talent...and, they practiced a heckuva lot!

---

I agree 100%!  Ryna Gellert is one of my favorite contemporary old time fiddlers. She readily admits that her father (Dan Gellert) definitely had a huge influence on her fiddling. Imagine her childhood... and she does have a classical background.

I listened to / watched a Question and Answer session with Rayna Gellert on YouTube not too long ago. I wanted to post a link to it, but it was a time when I think it could have made a situation worse, in stead of helping. I think it might be easier to "receive" in response to these latest comments - especially coming from an exceptional old time fiddler. 

I've learned a good number of tunes from her recordings. I especially appreciate her thoughts and sensibilities about old time fiddling and the best way to capture that "mojo". She does a good job at about the 7 minute mark in this Q & A session - of answering the question "How to get that old time sound?"  ...immersion!

Again - I'm not suggesting that aspiring old time fiddlers should avoid any classical training, I'm only suggesting that you won't get an old time fiddling "accent" from classical training. Why? Because that isn't what classical training teaches. Please - that's not a slam - or meant to be derogatory. It just is. 

And Rayna sort of speaks to that as well - at just after the 37 minute mark. She answers a question from Carter Bancroft (an Alaskan friend and member here at FHO) who asks her, "Do you play in keys that are not standard for old time (B, E, etc)? Do you feel it’s necessary for you to be able to play in those keys?"

Her answer expresses exactly what I would say (have said):

"I really don't. I mean, I used to play classical music. As a young person I played classical violin. And so obviously, there was a time in my life when I played in all the keys. And I guess if I wanted to do that now, I could do some wood shedding and figure out how to do that again. ...that's not what I do now. I don't feel that it's necessary for me to be able to do that because I don't have an outlet for it. And it's not - again, it's not something that speaks to me as far as... ...I'm not somebody that sits around playing etudes and practicing scales like,    I play tunes and - um - that's what makes me want to play - is tunes.

And so, if you are a musician who loves doing that kind of exploration and having that sort of practice where even if you're not necessarily playing in the key of E - you could - at any moment - play in the key of E, then hell yes - do that."  ...there is more to her answer. 

I also really like her response to practicing prescribed bowing patterns (9 minute mark).  In fact. I really enjoyed the whole hour long session. Good stuff.

I would consider her opinions (based on my experience) to be pretty consistent with others. 

Yea I admire Rayna’s playing a lot!